Dongba Yang Zhashi, born in 1952, is the thirteenth-generation inheritor of the Yang family’s Dongba lineage in Youmi Village. He is both the village patriarch and a Dongba who can officiate all rituals. His multiple identities span Dongba priest, clan leader, craftsman, healer, leatherworker, and painter. As a child, he observed Dongba rituals by his great-uncle’s side, and in 1966 he formally became an apprentice to his maternal grandfather, Shi Shenggen Duoji. Over more than a decade, he traveled across Yunnan and Sichuan to search for, borrow, transcribe, proofread, and organize Dongba scriptures, making a significant contribution to the preservation and transmission of Dongba culture. He was once invited to speak at the centennial celebration of Tsinghua University.

Time: Afternoon of November 20, 2024
Location: Home of Dongba Yang Zhashi, Youmi Village, Ninglang Yi Autonomous County, Lijiang, Yunnan Province

Yang Zhashi Dongba: In the past, coming to this area required crossing a snow-covered mountain at 4,800 meters elevation. The Chinese Communist Party is truly great—once the road was built, you could cross just from the mountainside. Now our production and daily life are changing rapidly.

Ding Yi: The roads are open and life is better—has there been any change in religious rituals or traditions?

Yang Zhashi Dongba: We are feeling the changes, and we have to keep up with the times. Religion is also changing. Some elders say, “You can’t change it like this.” But my view is—it can change. For example, in the past, when holding a funeral, we would slaughter several yaks… We used to boil a bit of soup and divide it among households. Each family would get a small piece of yak or goat meat, which by the time they brought it home would smell so foul. Now that custom has changed. I support changing outdated customs—many of the old rules were too archaic and had to go. As long as we maintain the overall cultural spirit, it’s fine.

People from outside—like from Beijing or the Chinese Academy of Sciences—come here and insist that we not speak Mandarin, but only our native language, to preserve it. They say houses must stay in their original state and can’t be renovated. The state has even designated us as an “Ancient Village.” They say our traditional houses, built with local materials that stay warm in winter and cool in summer, are excellent and should never be changed. Old customs must also be maintained and protected as they are.

Ding Yi: Are there still many rituals happening in the village?

Yang Zhashi Dongba: The rituals are constant.

Ding Yi: I heard Youmi Village still worships water gods and the Dragon King.

Yang Zhashi Dongba: The Dragon King is closest to humans. At the very beginning of the Dongba scriptures, it says that humans and the Dragon King are like two brothers. The Dragon King is the elder brother, and we humans are the younger. The Dragon King is the one we respect most—we can’t live without him.

Lijiang has established a Dongba Culture Museum to protect Dongba religious culture. In the past, our beliefs were labeled as “monsters and demons,” but now that kind of talk is banned. Dongba is a civilized religion—it must be preserved. We’ve heard of Taoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism, but Dongba stands apart—it’s suspended in the air. It wasn’t until last year, after reading some books on Tibetan Buddhism, that I understood: we came down from the Ali Plateau. We are of the Bön tradition of Buddhism. Yungdrung Bön is our ancestral religion. Along both banks of the Wuliang River, it’s all one religion—the Dongba religion.

Ding Yi: This village is built in a particularly well-chosen location. There are three mountains surrounding it, and the Wuliang River runs nearby. Why do you think the ancestors chose this place?

Yang Zhashi Dongba: There are three surnames in this village. My family name is Yang, another is Shi, and the last is A (Pronounced Ah). The A family came later. My family moved to this village ten generations ago, relocating here from the village of Ciwa below. The Shi family came at the same time as us. We came to help fortify the Sichuan–Yunnan border. A young man from the A family who was a merchant married into the village, and that’s how that family stayed. They’re now in the fifth generation.

Ding Yi: What are the names of these mountains?

Yang Zhashi Dongba: We gave them our own names. This mountain here is called “Sitting Beauty,” and the one farther west is called “Sleeping Beauty.” Our culture here is relatively intact. In places like Lijiang, Han Chinese culture has had too strong an impact. In our village, we never invite lamas (spiritual leaders in Tibetan Buddhism) from other ethnic groups—whether it’s weddings, funerals, or childbirth rituals, all the ceremonies are performed by our own Dongba. I’ve trained three disciples, and they’ve all completed their studies. They can perform any kind of ritual.

Ding Yi: You’ve preserved tradition while also understanding the changes in modern society.

Yang Zhashi Dongba: I was guided by our great leader Mao Zedong: “Circumstances are constantly changing. To make your thinking adapt to new conditions, you must study. Even those who already know Marxism quite well, who have a solid proletarian stance, must continue studying, embrace new things, and research new problems.”

Ding Yi: I remember that quote too. It’s impressive you can still recite it fully after all these years.

Yang Zhashi Dongba: I tell young people that Mao’s writings are essential reading. He spoke about the present, about history, and about future generations.

Ding Yi: I heard there was a funeral ceremony yesterday for an elder. Do these ceremonies still follow traditional practices? Do you still use The Road to Heaven scroll?

Yang Zhashi Dongba: Yes, we use The Road to Heaven. After the livestock is slaughtered, there’s one ceremony during the cremation, another when receiving the soul, and one big meal for all the guests. The family hosted a large one yesterday. The three main rituals are: one during cremation, which the whole village attends; one when bringing the soul back, when each household must send at least one person, and those who are closer attend as an entire family to help. Although Youmi has three surnames, we are united and all participate. Youmi was originally a military post guarding the border, so discipline is strict, and unity is strong.

Ding Yi: Is the Heaven considered the place where the ancestors originally lived?

Yang Zhashi Dongba: We younger Dongba believe our ancestors came down from the Heaven. We consider the highest mountain to be the Himalayas, with Mount Everest as the highest peak. The older Dongba didn’t study geography, so they didn’t have this understanding.

Our migration route follows the original path. The spiritual journey in The Road to Heaven also follows the original path—wherever people came from, that’s where we send them back. In the Dongba script, there is a character for “water” that has a circle at the top, which we believe represents Qinghai Lake. Three rivers lie down from there: the Nu River, the Lancang River, and the Yangtze River. We migrated from the middle river, then to Lijiang, and eventually to Zhongdian. My family settled in Zhongdian.

In the past, in the works of scholars like Professor Fang Guoyu, it was always believed that our ethnic group migrated from the north to the south. But in fact, that’s not the case—the problem lies with the character “水” (water). They took the upper part of the character to represent the north and the lower part to represent the south. But actually, the water flows from the west (the upper part) to the east (the lower part). So originally, our migration was west to east, but it was misunderstood as north to south. They made a mistake in interpreting the character. We dare not blame those before us for their errors, but we do have a responsibility to correct them.

Ding Yi: You once attended Tsinghua University’s centennial celebration. What did you talk about in your speech?

Yang Zhasi Dongba: Professor Zhao Liming came to my home to invite me. She said, “This year, Tsinghua is holding a centennial anniversary event. Can you attend?” I said, “It’s something I’ve been dreaming of day and night.”

Ding Yi: You didn’t prepare a written speech, did you?

Yang Zhasi Dongba: No, I’m used to speaking off the cuff. Professor Zhao asked me to explain the book Genesis. I only had 20 minutes to speak. That’s such a thick scripture—how could I cover it all? I thought I’d just grab the head and the tail, and let the middle remain a bit vague, otherwise I wouldn’t be able to wrap it up in time.

It starts like this: In the beginning, there was no sky. Then a current of air slowly descended from above. White clouds could be seen, and next, the sky appeared. In ancient times, there was no earth either. But then a current of air rose from below, gradually forming a layer of mist. As the mist descended, the earth came into being.

The scripture ends like this: There was no sun or moon between heaven and earth, only darkness. (Everyone decided) to send someone to bring the sun back. (The first to go was) the red deer of the great mountain—he had transformed into a human. He said, “I will go and bring back the sun!” He ran to the sun’s home but couldn’t speak its language, so he failed to invite it. On his way back, he was eaten by a tiger. The second time, it was the muntjac, who ran extremely fast. He said, “I’ll go!” He ran quickly, but again, couldn’t speak the sun’s language and failed to bring it back. On his way back, he was eaten by a jackal. The third time, it was our domesticated dog. The dog ran to the sun’s house and understood its language. We always say, “Not even good as a dog,” yet it was the dog who succeeded in bringing back the sun and achieved great merit! As for the moon, it was finally brought back by a rooster.

Then I said: Today in China we have 56 ethnic groups. I believe we must be like the scripture says—able to communicate across different languages. If we can’t do that, how can harmony among ethnic groups ever be achieved?

(The two begin flipping through the scriptures.)

Yang Zhasi Dongba: As a Dongba, when writing scripture, even if one stroke or dot is missing, it’s considered a sin.

Ding Yi: In Dongba culture, there are twenty-eight constellations, right?

Yang Zhasi Dongba: Yes. In Han culture, there are twenty-eight constellations, with single-character names like Jiao (Horn), Kang (Neck), Di (Root), Fang (Room), Xin (Heart), Wei (Tail), Ji (Winnowing Basket); Dou (Dipper), Niu (Ox), Nu (Girl), Xu (Void), Wei (Danger), Shi (House), Bi (Wall)… each star corresponds to one character. But in our Dongba script, the names aren’t very well assigned—like: [ts‘ua⁵⁵ts‘∧²¹], [t‘a⁵⁵kɯ²¹]…Back in my grandfather’s day, the scholar Li Lin-tsan visited our area and went to my grandfather’s cousin’s house—the cousin was from the Shi family. Li asked him, “Can you introduce your twenty-eight constellations?” The elder said yes. “Are there twenty-eight?” “Yes.” After Li finished recording thirty of them, the elder was still talking. He said, “There are still many more.” Li said, “That’s enough, that’s enough.” There are countless examples of these kinds of inconsistencies. I spent a long time investigating and discovered this is where the issue lies.

We are called the “Ruanke” people, but in Han historical texts we became known as the “Naxi.” Both “Naxi” and “Ruanke” names were assigned to star names, which caused all sorts of confusion. Naxi people called those the constellations—but what did we Ruanke people call them? Our elders never clearly distinguished the terms… One would say this, another that, and when pieced together, it seemed like there were many more constellations than there actually were.

Ding Yi: In Dongba culture, are constellations used for divination or as a calendar?

Yang Zhasi Dongba: There’s no calendar. Some people are just making things up. I don’t believe anyone can tell what date it is just by looking at the stars…The twenty-eight constellations and five elements in Han culture are the same as ours. But the Han have ten heavenly stems; we have nine. The twelve earthly branches and zodiac animals are the same as the Han. There’s no difference.

Ding Yi: Does each Dongba have their own version of The Road to Heaven scroll? Is it passed down or drawn by themselves?

Yang Zhasi Dongba: What the ancestors passed down no longer exists—now we draw them ourselves. There’s a standard Dongba requirement: if you can’t write, you’re not a real Dongba. You must not rely solely on the ancestors. Our script is quite simple. For example, this character means “wood,” and if it has two roots, then it means “tree.”

Ding Yi: Can any elder go to the Heaven?

Yang Zhasi Dongba: Yes. A Tsinghua student once asked me: “Grandpa, can your Road to Heaven scroll be used by the Shi or A families?” I told him, “Not just the Shi or A families—even foreigners can use it to ascend.”

Ding Yi: Do different Dongbas interpret The Road to Heaven differently?

Yang Zhasi Dongba: No. Because there’s a specific scripture dedicated to explaining The Road to Heaven.

Ding Yi: Dongba culture has a very rich pantheon. I remember there’s a priestly system and a sacrificial system?

Yang Zhasi Dongba: Yes, there are countless god systems. For example, when we Dongbas perform a ritual in a shrine, we fill winnowing baskets with grain, make dough figurines of gods, and place them in rows. The higher-level gods are vegetarian; the middle-level ones—like warrior gods—eat meat; water gods, dragon gods, mountain gods—these are all vegetarian.
Young people don’t understand and sometimes place meat before vegetarian gods. Even now, many Dongbas can’t tell them apart: the vegetarian gods are the higher-ranking ones.
For them, we make round-shaped dough; for the meat-eating gods, we make triangle-shaped dough. There are so many rituals and taboos—but some people just say, “It’s almost the same.”
But “almost the same” is not the same!

…Tangible things that can be seen and touched belong to materialism. Things that can’t be seen, can’t be touched, have no shape or color—those are yin elements. What is yin and yang?
Take a person: the body, including muscles, bones, tendons, and blood, are all yang material.
But without yin, yang cannot live. What is yin? In old Han terms, it was called “hun and po,” now we usually say “soul.” When yin attaches to the body, it becomes a living person. Once the soul departs, the body begins to decay…

Dao gives birth to One, One gives birth to Two, Two gives birth to Three, and Three gives birth to the ten thousand things. All things carry yin and embrace yang—and that’s how life is formed.

The seven major principles spoken of by Laozi were later transformed by Zhang Sanfeng into the Taiji (Yin-Yang) diagram—yin contains yang, and yang contains yin. Among them, the first principle is the Fundamental Law of Yin and Yang; the second is the Law of Generation and Overcoming in the Five Elements; the third is the Law of Unity between Heaven and Humanity; the fourth is the Law of Self-Regulation and Breath Adjustment of the Universe; the fifth is the Law of the Transformation of Quality; the sixth is the Law of Extremity and Reversal; and the seventh is the Law of Cause and Effect.

Yin-type entities do exist. Some people, through cultivation, can see them and even communicate with them. Others, who have not yet reached a high enough level of cultivation, cannot see them—not because they don’t exist, but because no one is yet able to recognize them. Yang-type things have a mode of existence that occupies both space and time. But yin-type things are different—they do not occupy space, yet they fill space! How fast do they move? Yang-type entities, at most, approach the speed of light; but yin-type entities begin by surpassing the speed of light! How do we discover them? We can’t—because they are far too fast.